Monday, 8 August 2011

You Reap What You Sow


Well as I write, various parts of London, Croydon and Birmingham are burning. But fear not, I have just read in the Guardian that the Home Affairs Select Committee are going to launch an inquiry into the rioting so that should  resolve it PDQ.

This is no longer anything to do with the police shooting a gangster in Tottenham. It is nothing to do with police and community relations. It is nothing to do with police racism. This is about 30 years of a liberal ineffective education system. This is about people being allowed to behave as they wish without any consequences. This is about pandering to to peoples rights with no regard to responsibilities. This is about a criminal justice system that is totally ineffective and that holds no fear for criminals. This is about failing to imprison violent and persistent offenders.


This is the legacy of Blair, Brown, Cameron etc. This is the legacy of the liberal hand wringers who just want to help all these poor offenders and never set boundaries or consequences. You reap what you sow. The blame for all this will no doubt be pointed elsewhere. Last week the police were criticised for being too hard on protesters. This week we are too soft. When the ashes are raked over this will need a wholesale change in policies not just laying the blame at the door of the police, a la MacPherson.


This is not a popular uprising such as the Arab states as some cretin suggested. This is about 2% of the population who have been taking the piss for years with impunity from the justice system. The police can sort it out but the liberal hand wringers might have to accept baton rounds and a few cracked skulls. If you cannot accept that then let them carry on. The Government might have to have a rethink on cutting police officer numbers, and before they cut payments to officers for being riot trained and for being called back to work they need to think that one through. Thousands of police officers have been called in to help tackle the rioting tonight. Cut the payments and next time you will find no one answering the phones. Most of us are devoted to the job and are happy to take all the crap and criticism and inevitable shaftings, but don't expect it for nothing.

34 comments:

  1. Agree with you all the way, and now the time has come for our police force to be armed and given free rein in situations like this. Good luck out there.

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  2. Why were the police not arresting rioters? The resolve must have been huge to stand there and take it and not dish it out, but surely there could have been snatch squads or whatever they're called, arresting stragglers at least?

    Also, I read that there were 6,000 officers out last night but the met has over 50,000 staff with around 32,000 full officers. Why were less than a fifth of the full officers out or around a tenth of the full force? Do they really need 1 support staff for every 2 officers, iof that's what the other staff are?

    Genuine questions BTW.

    Good blog.

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  3. "...the time has come for our police force to be armed and given free rein in situations like this."

    I do hope you don't aspire to become plod. The UK service is just stupid enough to accept you.

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  4. police careers are full of hype and adventure and one in which you will not regret getting into. When you are a police officer, no day will be boring unlike what happens in casual work in the office. Instead, you will be running on the streets, patrolling the alleys or investigating crimes.

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  5. Gosh. Just as I thought we could really feel sympathy for our police.

    So he's now a "gangster". Yesterday he was an "alleged gangster", if memory serves.

    You are lumping student fees and climate change protestors, the majority of whom were completely peaceful, with this lot? A kid in a wheelchair in the same category as arsonists and looters? Give me a break. You're obviously just itching to go out and break heads, whoever they belong to.

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  6. "...You're obviously just itching to go out and break heads, whoever they belong to."

    Permit my suggestion that head breaking is reserved for victims least likely to resist.

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  7. "So he's now a "gangster". Yesterday he was an "alleged gangster", if memory serves."

    No he was a saint on the 1st day - dem famly said. Dat gun is an just ornament - all family men av dem.

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  8. "You reap what you sow"

    Good grief, I see the penny has finally dropped on the Inspector Gadget blog.

    A rusty mechanism results in a slow action...but that penny has finally worked its way through the slot.

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  9. @ Anonymous 1232 - the only way you can deal with these yobs on the street in this situation is to go in hard and baton strike them. The police leaders are too scared to allow this and so officers were told to stand their ground in lines. The reason the senior managers are scared of going in hard is because the some of the looters and rioters will get seriously hurt and so might some of the police officers. Scared of litigation and further demonstrations if violent criminals are killed or seriously injured.

    I think the public and Government now have probably seen enough of police softly softly tactics and from now you will see far more proactive policing and the police taking it to the rioters.

    The question about officer numbers is a good one. I will try and keep it brief but most Forces now are approaching 50% civilians and 50% police officers. The civilians include all the PCSO's and large increases in bureacratic machinery. Some of us have been saying for a long time that this policy is dangerous and leaves forces with little resilience. Have a look at my posts dated 13th June 2010 and 5th February 2011.

    @ Fat Geordie - don't be naive, some of these people are the same. Whenever there is any type of anti establishment, anti police protest you will find them stiring it up. The little prick in the wheelchair is called Jodie McIntyre. Google the little cretinous turd. He was causing trouble at the student protests and he has been involved in this rioting. He was tweeting last night encouraging people to go and set light to Tottenham Police Station. I am going to see to it that the little prick is arrested for inciting riotous behaviour.

    @ Anonymous 1746 - Fuck off Melvyn. Look at my post about feral youths dated 5th October 2009. I have been saying this for years. I hope the penny has dropped with the Government and even anti establishment tossers, such as yourself.

    Sorry if I am a bit grumpy but I am tired and about to go back to work. I hope to report that, if there is any trouble tonight, the tactics will change and you will see the police taking it to the rioters. Just promise me the bleeding heart liberals will be told to fuck off when they start complaining the police have been over zealous.

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  10. James Whale for Prime Minister!

    A bleeding heart liberal told him that the black youth were disenfranchised and trying to ‘tell society’ something.

    Whale replied, ‘No, they are not trying to TELL us anything, they are trying to STEAL because they have learned that there are no consequences’

    Have a look at my post dated 14th February 2010 regarding consequences. You heard it here first!

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  11. I despair for the future of this country. With one or two exceptions people do not behave in the way we have seen for no reason whatsoever.

    If this whole situation had been dealt with more carefully to begin with perhaps it wouldn't have become so violent. Bleeding heart liberals? In the UK? From where I stand we virtually live in a police state. More intelligent policing is whet is needed. Sadly the use of force seems to be the preferred method of choice for the majority of police officers. Order in any community stems from a variety of sources, shared values, respect and tolerance. It cannot be forced upon people unless one wants to live in a police state. People (including the police) should abide by the law. The police should also remember thay are the servants not the masters.

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  12. @ anonymous 2025 - we live in a police state? Fuck off! Have you any idea what a police state is like? Our police have been indoctrinated into political correctness, race relations, community relations and community, community, community. Watch how many times any senior police officer mentions that word.
    What we need is the police to stop pissing around with all the bollocks and just concentrate on reducing crime and arresting offenders. With it we need a criminal justice system that actually deters criminality.
    Police state! You are obviously a complete c%*t.

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  13. Retired Dinosaur09 August, 2011 22:04

    Been there, seen it, done it and have ex-colleagues with the scars as a result from the riots in the 1980s. Even back then, when the neo-Marxists, sorry Militant, held sway in both Manchester and Liverpool, the attitude was that we should not upset the mob at all costs. The claim was that if the mob were not “provoked” by the nasty, vicious police there would be very little trouble.

    Liverpool, unfortunately, had a well past it dithering Chief and a woolly minded doddering old biddy as head of the police authority who insisted the front line should just stand and take it day after day after day.

    Manchester had a Chief who took a completely different tack. He agreed to abide by the wishes of the local politicians and the police authority and allowed the troops to also stand and take everything that was thrown at them. On the first night the mob ran riot and the front line suffered as a result. The following day the chief bluntly told the politicos that he had tried there way and it obviously did not work and hence forth it would be dealt with the situation as he believed was the correct way. On the second night he let the lads loose and the rioters got far more than they had bargained for and it hurt them.

    The riots in Liverpool, and in most other cities where the softly, softly attitude was taken, the riots went on and on and on. Manchester, on the other hand, soon became relatively quiet as a result of the strong response the rioters were given.

    With rioters standing back just does not work, it only encourages them because they are given the impression they can get away with anything they do and others get the same idea as we are seeing now. Oh, and don’t rattle your staffs on the back of your shields, it makes the rioters nervous and that’s not playing fair.

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  14. All the things you mentioned are good things. People who moan about political correctness are generally those who think it's ok to be offensive. It speaks volumes that you swear in your reply to me.Most police officers I've met in my work(and I've met dozens) have been the same. It does nothing to promote a positive image of the police does it? Have a rational and respectful debate.

    Most crime is in one way or another socially constructed. Deal with social issues and crime rates will come down.
    Oh, and if as you say I'm 'a complete c**t', could I join the police? AS I'm not a racist, sexist right winger maybe I'm unsuitable. Surely a senior officer can have a reasonable debate?

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  15. It's very quiet in Brixton and the sisters are making us tea.

    @Anonymous 2216 - if you read this blog regularly you will know that I am always banging on about education, opportunites and spending more on prison reform etc. But what I also believe is that boundaries and consequences exist, always.
    I understand that many of these kids will be from broken homes, inadequate parents, poor education etc. Quite happy to address these issues but boundaries and consequences have to be set immediately.

    I didn't call you a c**t, another anonymous commentator did. But no, you cannot join the police we have enough of them already.

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  16. I fully agree with anon above. This police blogger revels in contempt and disrespect.

    In this public forum, his manner and language are totally unacceptable to the average citizen. He will smear any citizen to suit his own purposes and we can only imagine how badly he behaves in person, towards those he may dislike. I am certain he is the type to obscure identity numbers and avoid the consequences of misconduct in a public office. In the same way, his anonymity on this blog provides cowardly confidence to parade the obscene language he would arrest others for using.

    You Sir, are unfit to wear an officer's uniform.

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  17. Worth reflection; Housman's famous poem.

    Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

    These, in the day when heaven was falling,
    The hour when earth's foundations fled,
    Followed their mercenary calling,
    And took their wages, and are dead.

    Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
    They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
    What God abandoned, these defended,
    And saved the sum of things for pay.
    A.E. Housman
    http://www.poemtree.com/poems/EpitaphOnAnArmy.htm

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  18. "an inquiry?" I think anybody with half a brain and dialed in on what's really going on in the world could tell them.
    ...any idea how much money they budgeted for this? I could give them the answers and split the money with you.

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  19. Surprise surprise, the "cuts" in Police numbers and overtime are the problem. This is one of the few times the police actually have to engage criminals, instead of sitting on a motorway bridge in an cosy X5 waiting for hard working businessmen like myself to do 78mph. Or catching teenagers smoking a bit of puff, nice work if you can get it.

    Also, don't you all retire on a superb pension at 45? Oh yes, that's right (I am a pensions techie)...and all those other perks for mortgages etc. If you weren't so over-payed for filling in forms, we might be able to afford a few more of you.

    Good luck raking in a few fines today.

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  20. @ anon 07:17

    Much of middle England has experienced your frustrations and shares your opinion. Where ineffective police have failed, the Army should be brought in to restore law and order.

    UK police must now face a reckoning. No longer a case for economic pruning, the real question hanging over this 'service' is "What future can there be for a corrupt and counter productive shambles?"

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  21. I am wondering whether the lack of bone crushing was the Met taking the media and legal system to the precipice - "If you keep hanging us for doing our job then we will do "nice" policing, and you can watch the country burn"!

    It's ACPO and the lawmakers who are really at fault, claerly, but it really winds me up to hear the bleating that it's down to not getting 4 hours overtime for taking a call after hours. The police are fantastically rewarded compared to most countries, and we deserve better than overweight dudes pointing radar guns at people. I do not extend this to all coppers as I have met some downright sensible ones. Plus I drive a red car which makes life hell when they are playing speed gun snooker.

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  22. It has not been proven that Mark Duggan is a 'gangster' - so you inadvertently hit the nail on the head: systematic racism and assumptions by at least *some* policemen.

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  23. The underlying problem is a complete absence of discipline and lack of consequences for actions.

    Today, the rights of the individual are seen to be more important than those of the society in which he/she lives, which is completely wrong.

    Kids need clear boundaries when growing up, with defined consequences for exceeding those boundaries. The rights of society must be paramount and discipline is the key to ensuring this.

    Bring back corporal punishment (it reinforces learning!), and consider reintroducing national service, too, to instil discipline. If kids fail exams, keep them back – there are no guarantees of any “free lunch” in life. It’s time to stop this silly experiment with political correctness, and to go back to basic decent norms of behaviour in society.

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  24. @ Anonymous 0717 - No one has suggested that the cause of all this is cuts to police etc. There is a warning that if you do start cutting swathes from the police ranks it won't be brought under control.

    Not a very good pensions techie, I am afraid. No police officers can retire on pension at 45. Back to school for you.

    If getting a speeding ticket has made you this bitter and twisted you need to grow up and get over it.

    @ Anonymous 0846 - Which planet are you writing from? We have been been keeping the lid on the feral yobs for years and telling you that if the education system, the criminal justice system etc. doesn't do something there are going to be consequences. Now the rest of you are getting a look at what we deal with day in and day out.
    No one has listened. The Government just spouts statistics about how crime has been dropping for 20 years, how education achievement has never been better and how recividism rates are falling.
    We have been saying this is rot and if you don't stop some of the ridiculous liberal policies and start addressing the persistent offenders whose role models are irresponsible, breeding, drug dealing, thieving, violent thugs and slags something like this might happen.
    We were written off as ignorant scaremongers.
    You have thrown money at the problems. All these people had an opportunity at school but they and their parents chose not to take it. They all have homes, as soon as they start banging out the next generation, they are given one. They all have the opportunity for jobs but the jobs they can achieve with their education and social skills are not good enough. It is easier for them to stay at home on benefits, hit the Playstation and deal drugs and thieve to help pay for more fags and booze, while the Poles do those jobs.
    I don't want that investment taken away. I want boundaries and consequences set so that we actually start doing something to break the cycle.
    You have clearly been brainwashed by the Daily Mail - that rag for ignorant bigots - the police do not get 4 hours pay for just taking a call after hours. Where does your fact about the police being fantastically rewarded compared to other countries come from? We get paid less than the European average and less than the USA, for example. We also have fewer police officers per head of population that most western countries

    @ Anonymous 0928 - Now I know more about Mr Duggan, I removed the alleged. This is based on fact not racism. Shouting racist police all the time is very juvenile and isn't going to work this time.

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  25. Why does it always have to be Us vs Them? The looters should take responsibility for their actions. The government should understand and provide for the youth. The bleeding heart liberals should get a clue. The establishment should get their heads out the sand. The police are lazy thugs. The public are soft fools. And round and round it goes.... Always finger pointing, never solving any problems. Exactly like me right now. We all need a shake up and fast.

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  26. as i whatch sky news rite now im whatching 4 police officers kicking and beating a guy who is on his own and appears to give no risistance to police but still how the baton still comes down to hit his body, get heavy handed yes, but i thought once the offender is restrained aint you supposed to appy handcuff and in a van to the staion ? not ok hes on the floor lets give him a few more hits as he curls up in a ball some of you im afraid dont deserve that uniform and the privalages it has with it ive always supported the police and the great job they do but really is that level of violence needed . a sad day for the uk all over

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  27. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgXpNqT2kJE&feature=player_embedded
    Police kicking rioters from their bikes in manchester.
    I got no problem with that, i do got a problem with all the stuff you see when you type in "police brutality" on youtube.

    Whats your excuse for those vids with 2 policemen beating 12y old girls in the face Lex?

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  28. wow look at that the thinking police man is suddenley the quiet police man hmmm.....

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  29. typo - 55! Other than this, you have a world class pension scheme. Paid for by us, for you. If you went to DC, as has nearly everyone else in this country, you could add at least 20% to the workforce. I wonder what the public would choose? All I am saying is you should be carefull in opposing the cuts, as someone has to pay for it in the end. It might be your pension and pay structure, instead of mine, so better to do more for less, as we have to.


    Bitter because of speed cameras - I can categorically state I have never received a ticket! I would NEVER allow myself to be taxed in this way!

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  30. @ Anonymous 1324 - I have not seen the video and wouldn't comment on it. Sometimes the police dealing with offenders does not look pretty. Pictures do not always tell the whole story. There have been a number of similar videos and in most cases the IPCC or Courts have decided that the officers acted lawfully.

    Having said that, if officers have used unlawful force or assaulted someone unlawfully I will be very happy to see them prosecuted.

    @ Anonymous 1415 - I have moved on to another post.

    @ Anonymous 1635 - For your information the police spend less than 1% of their time on speed enforcement. The police regularly attend community meetings to hear what people want us to be concentrating our resources and focus on. The two issues the public most want us to tackle are speeding vehicles and anti social behaviour, in that order.

    We do spend too much time on paperwork, but this is what the law requires us to do. Accountability and statistics and all that. I think you missed my point that we spend time every day dealing with the underclass and trying to ensure they do not impinge on middle class lives. You have just had a taste of what we have to deal with every day. I am hoping that perhaps now the liberal policy makers will have the major rethink we have been asking for.

    You do not pay for my gold plated pension, you make a small contribution towards it. I pay 11% of my salary to my pension scheme, more than any other public sector worker and more than most in the private sector. The Government have already stated it is their intention to increase the contributions further and reduce the benefits. So your figure increasing officers by 20% if we went to DC is way off.

    By the way, the mortgage 'perk' you mentioned was scrapped in 1994.

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  31. @ Anonymous 2317 9th August - I apologise for the poor language on the blog over the last couple of days. It is not normal on the blog and reflects my dismay at the situation we find ourselves in.
    You will be pleased to hear that my frustration only resulted in some profanities and I did not feel the need to join in the rioting or even batter any rioters.
    The cut of my jib has now been properly triangulated Sir!

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  32. and anon at 14.15 should know that the police pension is paid for by the police. For that I should say to Lex and his serving chums "Thanks guys, I'll try to ensure I draw mine twice as long as I drew my salary - if the injuries I received over those violent years don't get to me first"

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  33. I've never believed in working to rule.
    However, I've have pretty much had my fill of taking crap off people who contribute nothing to society but expect all it's benefits.
    I'm being led by ineffective, pandering senior leadership teams who mistake genuine concerns and constructive criticsm for 'being negative'.
    Couple that with pay freezes, pension uncertainty and a government unwilling to accept responsibility for it's own failings and only able to express it's shortcomings by trying to deflect blame onto others.
    I won't be renewing my level 2 , or polsa tickets, I won't be doing any more f.i.t. work, I don't want thanks, just appreciaion.
    Since thats all gone and I'm seen as nothig more than a number, then thats all I'll be.
    Their loss.
    No doubt Mr Camerons gang expert from the U.S can show us how to police with consent ....... and a gun.

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  34. I do as others have said above get so sick of people taking the Old Daily Mail line about overweight policemen, only interested in catching speeders (or if that fails persecuting kids who only like a spliff - many of those are the same feral youth who'd key your car as soon as look at you) and gold plated pensions.

    As pointed out I wonder how many people would like to pay 11% of their wages out in contributions and also be in a job where in effect you can't go past 30 years (esp now).

    Equally roads policing is only a small part of overall policing and the use of ANPR etc means that a lot more uninsured drivers are now getting stopped - most police officers couldn't operate a speed gun to save their lives. Those who think thats all the police do should pop down to their local Mags or Crown Court and they'd find them full - and not of motorists or people who just like a bit of blow.

    Maybe its my eyesight too but I have to say that on many ops etc I have seen very few overweight officers - maybe people are mistaking body armour worn over overalls with sometimes a functional and high vis over the top as equating to fat.

    Of course though this anti-police thing is nothing new - go back a 100 years and the same things were being written (allowing for the change in tech!)

    As to swearing - this is a blog not an official police site - nobody has to come here - so Anon at 23.08 is a bit silly - "I am certain he is the type to obscure identity numbers and avoid the consequences of misconduct in a public office. In the same way, his anonymity on this blog provides cowardly confidence to parade the obscene language he would arrest others for using.You Sir, are unfit to wear an officer's uniform."

    You do sound a bit pompous old bean and how from someone swearing can you deduce all these other points. I do like how people can stereotype 150,000 people and also be certain of things in such a manner - all the faults that the police are accused of, of course
    You of course are anonymous too, old chap - its how the internet works. The blogger concerned is off duty - personally I do not like swearing very much but the world of policing - like that of politics, the military or sport etc is not a WI meeting so 'obscene language' is bit OTT. In any event it doesn't matter of course - I have known some very decent police officers and people in other jobs who swear like troopers and seemingly strait laced polite people with the morals, ethics and human warmth and empathy of a snake. Equally of course I am sure I will now be accused of being supercillious and condescending (despite holding commendations for kindness to arrested persons and reading the Guardian!)- sometimes its interesting what people let slip if they judge you to be a soft touch - its not the good cop bad cop thing exactly, but one can sometimes achieve the result in different ways - the skill of policing to me is judging when to up the ante and to modify your approach to the person and to the situation - anyone can go in aggressively from the off.

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