I have previously written about Babar Ahmad and his lies being exposed. Ahmad has been in prison for seven years awaiting extradition to the United States on terrorism charges. Today he has been interviewed and has pleaded to be tried in this country rather than the USA.
He claims that he has seen no evidence against him but it is quite clear that he is very well aware of the case against him and he chooses words carefully to try and gain support. Ahmad is a graduate and the son of middle class Pakistani immigrants. He admits that during the Bosnia/Serbian conflict he joined a Bosnian unit fighting against the Serbians. He is not an armchair commentator.
It is alleged, and he did not deny in interview, that he ran a website called Azzam.com which supported Jihad and Chechen and Taliban fighters, although he claims he does not support terrorism. It is alleged that he had possession of a computer disc containing information regarding movements of the US 5th Fleet and the fact that the fleet was vulnerable to attack in the Straights of Hormuz. An American sailor has been convicted of selling this information to Babar and another.
Ahmad states in interview that if he was tried and had been convicted in this country he would be free by now. How true. This is the real issue. The only reason Ahmad is still in detention here is that he has been fighting tooth and nail, at taxpayers expense, his extradition to the United States. Ahmad could have gone to the US in 2004 and faced trial there. He knows that the Americans don't mess about with terrorists and if he were convicted he faces the rest of his life in gaol. He desperately wants to be tried in Britain as he knows that should he be convicted his sentence will be little more than he has already served.
The European Court of Human Rights will announce their long awaited verdict on his extradition next week. Personally, I hope he is packed off to the US for trial as soon as possible.
He is (AFAIK) a UK citizen, and ran a website from the UK. Why shouldn't he be tried in the UK?
ReplyDeleteApart from anything else, it would have been easier, quicker and cheaper for everyone involved to have him tried over here.
If, on the other hand, you think US laws should apply to UK citizens in the UK, surely UK law applies equally to US citizens in the US, and we should be actively seeking the extradition of innumerable US citizens on hate speech crimes (they would call it free speech), and most certainly offences against UK gun crimes.
People aren't - in general - saying "free Babar Ahmad", they're saying "TRY Babar Ahmad".
After having served in Bosnia (SFOR 14) my opinion is that anybody that went there from another country to fight on either side, is a terrorist. I don't care if they fought for the Serbs or against them, they are terrorist and deserve to be treated as war criminals, given a fair trial, then put in prison for the rest of their lives.
ReplyDeleteI understand your wish of having him be extradited for the simple reason that he will probably be locked up for much longer in the States. I am not a student of law, nor will I feign to know much about it, but I believe that the fact that the man in question is a UK citizen might take precedence over the fact that his alleged crimes were committed against the US. Furthermore, there is as of now insufficient proof that his crimes (assuming he is found guilty of all charges) were a matter of national security for the US, which I think is the only grounds strong enough upon which to justify an extradition.
ReplyDeleteI would suggest sending him to the Hague for war crimes trial from Bosnia. They're pretty fair and take years to get anything done.
ReplyDeleteIt's time we stopped being so stupid. This isn't about Babar Ahmad, this is about a foreign country having the right to pick up any englishman willy nilly and put them on a plane to the US.
ReplyDeleteIt was Blair and his cumbayaa singing with Bush that landed us all in this mess. He gave up our rights and sovereignty and we need to get it back plain and simple.
As for Babar Ahmad the day we let someone go to a maximum security jail for 8 years without trial is the day that we all open ourselves for abuse.
Sal'aam Lex and one of your worst posts, certainly props up the current "theory" that plod are racist. Let us start with Checheniya, do you believe it should not be free? As for the ECHR the UK usually ignores its rulings (4 years on Marper still not implemented!) O racismo, you do not address it. Had a look at Insp Gadget (wanker) and he thinks screaming N***er at a black kid is not racism. Oooh Matron! Finally terrorism, like the Mujaheddin that you backed in 1989? Mandela? Begin? Washington? Adams?
ReplyDeleteMedicine time again CR.Try a larger dosage.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Ciaran.
ReplyDeleteThe long, documented history which details Babar Ahmad's abuse by police, includes the dreadful accounts of arrests, torture, beatings, serious sexual assaults and deprivations.
Given these circumstances, it is to the eternal shame of UK police that one of its members and mouthpieces, operated a police blog to parade chapters of anonymous racial hatred in general and an ongoing defamation of Babar Ahmad, in particular.
'Thinking' policeman, indeed!
@ citychurches and the demented brigade. I am aware that Babar Ahmad is a UK citizen. I am aware that he ran a website from the UK albeit through American servers. The main issue is that he is alleged to have been involved in purchasing information from America which may have been used in terrorist action against the American navy.
ReplyDeleteI think this is by far the most serious allegation against him and he should go to America to be tried.
His website is called freebabarahmad.com not trybabarahmad.com
@ 'Dr' Gray - You would agree with an idiot wouldn't you?
Did you miss, or just ignore, the fact that four police officers were acquitted of assaulting Ahmad when the recording from an MI5 bug in his house was disclosed. This showed that his allegations of abuse by the police were lies.
How is suggesting that someone faces trial in America, rather than here, racist?
"...This showed that his allegations of abuse by the police were lies....and not forgetting 'Dr' Gray."
ReplyDeleteI trust two of my wider yawns suffice as response.
If I am an idiot ban me. Oh 4 of the RUC's finest have been given a slap on the wrist. I want to ask Melvin which of us has the most bans in place - I think I beat him. Now excuse me as I need to read "44 ways to serve and participate in jihad".
ReplyDelete@ Ciaran
ReplyDeleteI do not contest your claim to have beaten me but I may take more pains to be reasonable and accurate in my posts. These measures have denied police bloggers a justifiable cause to ban me. I certainly never stooped to the level of trading threats and obscenities with Gadgetista rabble, which include the likes of Jaded.
Dr Melvin (banned from most police blogs) Gray, is a name I use proudly but it is reserved for special filing purposes, Ciaran.
lex left school at 14/15yrs with no qualifications and this accounts for that huge shoulder chip. Doctorates make him feel very uneasy, so I wouldn't mention your progress in that direction...well, not too often.
Ciaran - the only reason I don't ban you is I enjoy a laugh and your posts provide good examples to the general public of the sort of people the police are up against. Melv was banned briefly, but that was for just being boring. It is sad that a couple of supposedly grown men think that trolling and being banned from blogs is something to be proud of.
ReplyDelete'Dr' Melv - answer the question. How is suggesting that someone faces trial in America, rather than here, racist?
I am happy to call you Dr if you can show me you are qualified. The suggestion that you are reasonable and accurate in your posts is laughable. You throw unsubstantiated allegations around and never provide any facts, answer questions or contribute to any sensible debate. I cannot believe that anyone as shallow and bigoted as yourself has any such qualification.
Good Morning, lex.
ReplyDeleteWe are very different men. For example, I do not share your inclination to make statements knowing them to be false.
On some police blogs I have been referred to as a person using a 'superior intellect' to abuse and belittle police officers. On this blog I stood accused of using a thesaurus and complex sentence structure, for the same purposes. More recently you chose a new tactic by attacking my intellectualism. In making your criticisms, your misspelling of the noun exposed a stupidity of which you were comically ignorant. The only person claiming to be an intellectual, is yourself; in a title which is both pompous and very ill-suited.
I am a highly practical person and whilst your post intended to insult me, I considered it to be on of the few truths published on this blog. I am not an intellectual, there!
This blog discredits police critics by groupings. Black folk fall into the 'pimp, 'looter' or drug dealer classifications. White, working class critics are drug users, shoplifters or 'illiterate swampies'. Middle class critics are simply 'police haters'.
You make a very specific false claim that I have insisted you call me Dr Gray. I am happy to inform you of my indifference to your lie and your disrespect but I am amazed you can mistake me for someone who would submit University Certificates to a police blog, or subject himself to a police questioning régime.
Do consider the outlandish notion of dealing with critics in a civilised and courteous manner, lex. Have a nice day.
Hooray I got a mention from one of the looney twins.Fame at last.
ReplyDeleteI didn't realise he had told lies about police abuse.I assume he got prosecuted for attempting to pervert the course of justice? Oh well never mind.These allegations are only one-way it seems.
More fantasy Melv. Show me one statement I have made knowing it to be false? I can for many of your contributions, including this one. Where have I said or even suggested that you have insisted on being called Dr Gray? Another false statement Melv.
ReplyDeleteI am happy to have sensible discussions with critics who have something to add to the debate. People like yourself who add nothing and sometimes throw around the most spurious and ignorant allegations deserve to be treated with contempt.
You still haven't answered the question. How is suggesting that someone faces trial in America, rather than here, racist?
"Where have I said or even suggested that you have insisted on being called Dr Gray? Another false statement Melv."
ReplyDeleteObjective readers can see you first addressing me as 'Dr' Melv, followed by another statement "I am happy to call you Dr if you can show me you are qualified."
A calculated combination of two inferences impugn the authenticity of my doctorate whilst inviting readers to presume I have asked you to call me by a title you suggest is bogus.
The publication of false and misleading information has obvious consequences for reputations, especially where a calculated intent is apparent. A defamatory statement is presumed to be false, unless the defendant can prove its truth.
Hope this helps.
"...A hush fell over the shore and Bohs departed..."
ReplyDeleteMust dash off now and keep that weakend appointment with a fair of Whitby. Toodle pip, all.
Melvin, one cannot be reasonable with the rabid. This may be the wrong time to mention my B.A (Hons), Dip.Ed, M.Litt (all from Russell group campuses, I left school aged 16 barely literate, so well done me!) "Up against" dear Lex has it ever crossed that wasteland you call a mind that if you dared not to try and fit up the innocent you'd have supporters not opponents? We all see, no matter which police blogge to be "criminals". Muck fee that is rich coming from corrupt sum like ye. WPC Jade D, trolling on the Indy (yes I am THE ONLY WAY IS NORFOLK). It is "I presume ..." in English dear. There is more support for the NASUWT than for plod, what does that tell you? Ras Clarts.
ReplyDeleteIt's amazing how self obsessed the trolls can be.
ReplyDeleteMelv, you get criticised for using a complicated sentence structure and a thesauraus because the odd occasion when you pull out a clever turn of phrase is generally outweighed by the effort required to tease out your meaning.
Oh Ciaran -the NASUWT on it's own has twice the number of members as the police federation and everyone has had some involvement with teachers. Two reasons why NASUWT may have more support than the cops.
Loving your use of "ras clart", you really are the student revolutionary aren't you? A big fan of Vanilla Ice too? Still if pretending to be "gangster" prevents your pompous use of Latin then we're all better off.
Tang0
Poor Tango, if you can't keep up sit at the kiddy table. The reason teachers, nurses, firemen and Uncle Tom Cobley have support is that they are not corrupt, cowardly, mendacious, murdering, inept, racist vermin like Mcfarlane, Harrington & 135,000 other donut eating radiator hugging EDL wannabe constables. Oderint dum metuant? Worn thin, so here is a parting shot "Copulare omnium, illegitimum".
ReplyDeleteCiaran,
ReplyDeleteSadly when you venture away from google your lack of learning becomes apparent.
You have never studied Latin have you?
The question is rhetorical, obviously.
Tang0
melv, I think your insecurities have got the better of you. You usually comment as MTG but on your earlier comments on this post you decided to comment as Dr Melvin (banned from most police blogs) Gray.
ReplyDeleteI simply chose not to address you as Dr as I cannot believe that you have such a qualification.
The fact that you have chosen to interpret this as me suggesting that you have demanded you be called Dr Gray says more about your ego. inadequacies and quite distorted mind, than anything else.
You still haven't answered the question. How is suggesting that someone faces trial in America, rather than here, racist?
Good Morning, lex.
ReplyDelete"I simply chose not to address you as Dr as I cannot believe that you have such a qualification."
As a stand-alone statement, the above is an entirely different matter. This does not offend me in the slightest and such a belief, when it cannot be shared, is a self entitlement to be defended. What a pity it is, to see a superficial maturity prejudiced by the inevitable puerile tantrum. At some point in a post, schoolboy insults will cascade on to your keyboard. It is the 'reward' to which you have become accustomed.
"...inadequacies and quite distorted mind..." further exposes your own defective obsessions. I will treat juvenile demands for 'answers' to a little discipline. It will be my prerogative to place you in the naughty corner until I choose to respond, if at all.
Should it interest you, the origin of your obsessions is to be found in your early years.
Learned council Tango (waits for laughter to subside) I did not study Latin. My M.Litt was in a Dept of Mod langs however. You?
ReplyDeletemelv - you cannot answer the question because it is another one of the spurious, unsubstantiated allegations, typical of your ilk.
ReplyDeleteI am bored of you now so we will leave it there.
Ciaran - people who have to claim qualifications to try and enhance their status, whether they have them or not, have already lost the argument.
Dear Ciaran,
ReplyDeleteYou really don't know when to stop do you?
I suppose it won't really surprise anyone that you take your Latin learning from Google. It is at least slightly more research than you put into most of your "arguments".
A degree from a modern languages department without a knowledge of the basics of language structure that would have been picked up with a basic knowledge of Latin again demonstrate practices that you appear to use in your posts - lack of a foundation, inability to make logical steps and a necessity to make things up when you are struggling to prove a point.
I can only hope that you never had to submit any form of dissertation to support your qualification.
My Latin - O-level only I'm afraid. All my degrees have been in science ;-)
Cheers
Tang0
PS "Learned council" from a self-proclaimed MLitt. That one will make me laugh for weeks.
Modern languages? Some of your language is very old-fashioned.
ReplyDelete@ Ciaran
ReplyDeleteThe context eludes me but any word-play requires an explanation to avoid Tang0's checkmate. In default of an explanation "Learned council" must play runner-up to lex's 'intelectual' gaffe.
Melv,
ReplyDeleteIt's a little worrying that you appear to be operating on the principle that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". You are aware of the range of interesting views that your "ally" propounds?
It is even more depressing that you put yourself in the position of having to speak on his behalf. Your position is worsened when you appear to consider that a retort directed at Lex is in some way a significant reply to more crass stupidity directed at me.
Lex can speak for himself - I don't agree with everything he says and I certainly wouldn't leap to his defence just because we are both cops.
Your lower standards do you no favours.
Tang0
@ Tnago
ReplyDeleteALL your degrees? You have gone and done it now, old chap. All we need is for Jaded to declare she was only dumbing-down her English and then ratch it up a couple of gears. I would blame destiny for time spent unknowingly in a Doctoral Pit.
'And the close proximity of peers placed mutual tolerance in jeopardy.' ;)
Melv,
ReplyDeleteYep. You can read. Well done ;-)
Tang0
Tango, is Bullshitology a science?
ReplyDeleteWPC Jade D, my point remains, the police are corrupt, mendacious murdering racist scum.
Melvin, Whatever.
Tango, My views? A failed Branch wally keeps tabs on me. Ooh Matron!
Lex, tell Mrs Lex you let you "do that thing you like", less stressful in the long run.
Ciaran,
ReplyDeleteI don't think Bullshitology is a science - you only appear to have an MLitt in it.
I don't think unemployed police blog trolls are really worthy of Special Branch attention - you appear more than capable of undermining yourself.
Maybe one day you might graduate to some level of intelligent argument without resorting to your tired and pompous chant of "mendacious".
Tang0
Meanwhile, over at Gadget, an Easter self-flagellation and self-harm initiative has been launched.
ReplyDeleteThousands are already preparing for crucifixion and the blog resounds to cries of "Gadget is great." I am trying to help out by making this appeal for unwanted whips, old rusty nails, pallets and bindings of any kind. There is an additional desperate need for a quantity of sharp cullet.
Support your local police by donating a heavy timber beam. Thank you.
Seems to have gone off the point. Babar Ahmad is fitted up. police are racist scum, we are right you are wrong. See what I did there?
ReplyDeleteCiaran,
ReplyDeleteDoes it ever worry you that you have a need to create so many different identities on the internet?
Anne Owers FFS. If only your writing style wasn't so distinctive. Surely with your MLitt you could do something about that.
Tang0
Trying to get back on topic Ciaran? That is a first ever for you. Can't think why!
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteCiaran - I have said before, any mention of Derek Haslam will be deleted.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteSo many identities,all of them complete arseholes.
ReplyDeleteHow's yer edukashun going Ciaran?
ReplyDeleteAnon 14.35, very well. I am preparing to do ground work on my Ph.D (you know the title though don't you?) Oh isn't stalking a bit creepy? Plus all those photos of me (and your grndson) that you keep. Good job Sgt Marcus Rowe 3412 Downham nick is in your lodge. You will find it far easier to establish a police state than to dismantle one.
ReplyDeleteGetting worse CR. Downham nick? Never existed. Shoulder number 3412 never existed,it's always three numbers for PC's in the Met and two number for Sgts.But don't let facts get in the way of your ranting.
ReplyDeleteSpecial Branch must be so busy following you.
@ WPC Jade D
ReplyDeletegizz a jobat the met duck its not fair i got dun cos i joind ku klux klan in my spair time.
Another identity?
ReplyDeleteStill hearing voices in your head or are MI5 bugging your calls?
Downham Market, Norfolk. Jade is it your "time of the month"?
ReplyDeleteLearned Council!!!!!!! Lots of prep to do before the Ph.D methinks. LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
ReplyDeleteDownham Market,a hotbed of racism and crime.The police are far too busy to section it's most famous resident.
ReplyDeletegreat post to readclick this link here now useful referencepage Sourcevisit
ReplyDelete