Space Karen
3 months ago
Thursday, 22 December 2011
Scotrail, No Ticket, No Charge
Many people have been outraged at the news that the yob, by the name of Sam Main from Falkirk, wants the person that threw him off a train prosecuted.
You can view the video of the incident above, but in summary, Main had no ticket. He was asked by the guard to leave the train. He insisted he had paid and refused to get off the train. He was rude and abusive. Eventually a big man by the name of Allan Pollock had had enough and asked the guard if he wanted Main removed from the train. The guard said yes and Pollock took hold of Main and took him to the doors. Main resisted and fell to the floor. He is picked up and pushed off the train. He immediately tries to run back on and is taken hold of and thrown away from the train. He ends up on the ground with a grazed cheek.
Main goes home and tells his mummy that he got assaulted and thrown off the train. Main's mummy is outraged that her darling son has got a graze on his cheek and wants revenge. An allegation of assault is made to the police. I take the view of the majority of people. Main is a foul mouthed yob who had every opportunity to leave the train and any injuries he received were as a result of his own stupid actions.
The press are reporting that Pollock has been charged with assault. This is NOT correct. The police have carried out an investigation and passed the file to the Procurator Fiscals office for a decision on prosecution. This is much the same as the police sending a file to the Crown Prosecution Service in England and Wales. The Procurator Fiscal will decide whether or not Pollock will be charged with assault and if Main will be charged with trespass or travelling without a ticket.
I sincerely hope that the Procurator Fiscal will take the view that Pollocks actions were perfectly lawful and he should be commended rather than prosecuted. I wouldn't have bothered charging Main had he accepted his just deserts, but as he and his mother have decided to make an issue of it, I hope they throw the book at him. If his mother had taught him how to behave in the first place he would not be in the position he is now.
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Bugger. And I'd already left an obscene comment rant elsewhere. I've left another comment saying it turns out it's not as simple as A charged and B let off and linked to your post. Rant first, repent at leisure.
ReplyDeleteIn case you missed it, Main had paid for that journey-- the mistake was made by the vendor-- it's been confirmed. Being foul mouthed is not a justification for body-slammed to a train platform, and "The Big Man" better be thanking his lucky stars Main wasn't more seriously injured or even killed. Scotrail have said this is not how fare-dodgers are meant to dealt with, which is probably why the guard is now on leave. He should never have given permission to Pollock to intervene physically, as he had no idea if his intentions were merely to remove him or punch him in the face. I'd also say that it's lucky that another passenger threw Main's bag to the platform, as his diabetes medication was in there. If he was hypoglycemic, which often mimics belligerent drunkenness, he could have been in serious trouble without his supplies. So many reasons matters like these should be left for trained authorities and not hot-headed vigilantes. But then given the number of times I've read about hot-headed, idiot police officers taking down hypoglycemic diabetics under the mistaken assumption they are drunk, it might not have made much of a difference.
ReplyDeleteYou saw a different video Anon.
ReplyDeleteThe one above is of a passenger being unable to show a railway guard a valid ticket.
The guard thus asked the passenger to alight from the carriage.
The passenger became truculent, refusing to leave.
An able bodied passenger offered to assist the aged guard, & with the guard's assent used minimum physical force to evict the passenger.
It is incumbent upon railway passengers to ensure they are in possession of a valid ticket for their journey.
End-of-story.
Just to clarify Angry Exiles comment, it was the post at my place that he commented on, where I called the police something rotten for charging this bloke.
ReplyDeleteThe press don't always print the facts though do they?
I stand by my comments on the basis that the police should not have even bothered the PF with this and that man should never have been arrested.
He made an honest oversight in not checking he had been sold the correct ticket. He swore, he was disrespectful, but the punishment did not fit the crime. Would you all be singing this same tune if Main were now in the morgue due to blunt force trauma to the head? Pollock needlessly elevated a non violent situation to a violent one, and the guard was happy to let it happen. Did you hear the woman in the video say "there's no need for that"? Where is ScotRail's responsibility in all this?
ReplyDeletelex has a talent for biased reporting. Had he been a painter, he would never have spoiled Cromwell's portrait with warts.
ReplyDelete@ anonymous 1337 and 1418 - he could have, and should have, just walked off the train. He didn't have a ticket. If that was an error then sort it out later. He was abusive and resisted being put off the train. He tried to run back onto the train. The force used was reasonable to get him back off the train. If he had been seriously injured it would have been his own stupid fault. Trying to blame others for idiots actions is a symptom of our society that we need to cure. Being a diabetic makes HIS actions all the more stupid, not the guards or Pollocks. Turning aggravating factors into mitigation is another sickness in our society and courts.
ReplyDeleteMelvyn, I look forward to reading an unbiased comment from you one day. I won't hold my breath though.
the description is 100 % how i feel about it , hope you don't mind that i've bumped into the vid description ;)
ReplyDeleteI just counted it up...I've been to 12 countries, and have used trains and buses in some of them....in every single country YOU MUST have a ticket to show when asked. Now this retarded lad was holding up the train for hundreds of other people...they should all be allowed to sue him and his mommy.
ReplyDelete@Anonymous: If ya went into a shop and were given your change, didn't check it and found later it was incorrect. Whose fault would it be?
ReplyDeleteDoesn't the same principle apply to train tickets? I know I always check mine before leaving the ticket office.
Anon; did you hear the other bloke say "well done Big Man?"
ReplyDeleteWhile I agree that care needs to be taken when assuming that diabetics are drunk Main did blur the line a little by drinking.
The morally right outcome is for both of them to be given advice and for the matter to go away legally.
@Lex, I agree, he should have walked off the train. I would have. However, Main didn't, and the conductor fanned the flames, egging on the already aggravated passengers. But I stress, the punishment so clearly did not fit the crime. ScotRail has been unequivocal that this is not how alleged fare dodgers are intended to be dealt with. The big man had no authority to do what he did when Main posed no physical threat. Main tried to get back on the train to retrieve his bag which contained his notes, money and insulin and probably a much needed sugar supply, as he was unaware someone had thrown it to the platform. He was irresponsible in drinking on an empty stomach which probably caused his low blood sugar, however, as I know firsthand, low blood sugar can creep up on you, even without alcohol, and it can make you irrational and uncooperative. What he needed was for someone trained to hopefully recognise this (like the police maybe?), get him the appropriate treatment, and most definitely NOT plant him face first onto the pavement. This is a fact that may be hard to swallow for those of you clinging to this narrative, where Main is the wee scrote who got what was coming to him. He's not an individual anymore, he's suddenly become the symbol of our society's ills... all based on a short youtube clip. It's all quite remarkable, and it's quite a burden for Main. I hope he's up to it.
ReplyDelete@ Anon 1220 - I disagree. He could have and should have just walked off the train with his bag. His alleged diabetes is irrelevant. We are in a society where we continually make excuses for peoples behaviour. Everyone has ADHD, OCD etc. etc. and the do gooders keep telling them they are not responsible for their behaviour. We need to get back to consequences for poor behaviour instead of excuses.
ReplyDeleteThe big man had every right to eject Main. Main was a trespasser on the railway who had been asked to leave by the guard. Anyone can use as much force as is necessary to remove a trespasser. It will be for others to judge if the force used was excessive. Personally, I hope the big man is not prosecuted. That would be a travesty of justice.
Main didn't need treatment. He needed to get off the train. Making excuses for his behaviour and trying to blame everyone except the cause of the problem is one of the ills of our current society.
You obviously have no experience or any training whatsoever with regards to diabetes and the effects of hypoglycemia. There's no excuse, you really should educate yourself-- even the written law makes allowances for it.
ReplyDeleteHave a happy new year.
Anon 1553 - I have a fairly good knowledge of diabetes. My father has had Type 1 for nearly ten years. Like most diabetics he has managed to exist without getting arrested or making a pratt of himself as a result of his illness.
ReplyDeleteMain's alleged diabetes is irrelevant to this case, it was just poor behaviour and nothing to do with hypoglycaemia.
Ah another little forum where moronic prats characterise people on the basis of selective hearing of 150 seconds of video. The one calling him "foul mouthed" obviously has never used 2 swear words in their life. The OP is one of those ignorant thuggish coppers who dragged the force down into the gutter in the 70s and 80s.
ReplyDeleteIt is not a criminal offence not to have a ticket, never mind the right ticket, it's a matter for the train company to take up with the individual.
Pollock on the clip comes across as an ignorant thug, who fully deserves the sentence he will receive. Passengers like the one who clearly says "There was no need for that" at the end will ensure that.
Oh and incidentally, behaving badly was never a reason for vigilantes to start attacking people half their size. I wonder how brave "big man" would be if it had been me.
ReplyDelete@ Anonymous above - It is a criminal offence to fail to produce a valid ticket for your journey. You have obviously failed to grasp the point of this post. The yob Main did not have a ticket. He might have thought he bought one but he didn't have one. Being abusive to the staff checking tickets and refusing to get off the train is totally unacceptable behaviour in these circumstances and I am fed up with people trying to make excuses for it.
ReplyDeleteThe man who put him off the train didn't threaten him with violence. He did not assault him. He took hold of him and put him off the train. Main was a trespasser and Pollock is allowed to use reasonable force to remove him. The yob Main then immediately tried to get back on and was thrown off forcibly.
Main may have some mitigation but there is no excuse for his behaviour and if Pollock is prosecuted it will be another nail in the coffin of justice for this country. I am sorry if you cannot see that.
You mean he swore after Jobsworth in this vid got aggressive. This is the end of a 15 minute argument. No one looks good at the end of a 15 minute argument. Pollock didn't have to throw him, he could have manhandled him off easily enough but he had to show off and now he's in trouble.
ReplyDeleteBear in mind Main wasn't aggressive, Jobsworth and Pollock were. If you'd been there at the very start you'd have told the guard to calm down.
As for why he didn't leave he had every right to be on the train. It's not his fault some idiot gave him the wrong ticket. That's really all there is to it,
It is very sad to hear that some people think a fitting punishment for failing to produce a ticket is being physically thrown off a train causing injury.
ReplyDeleteWhat a nasty
ReplyDeleteWhat a nasty person you are. You justify hurting someone because they don't have a ticket? My previous comment is correct - "what a nasty...." Fill in as desired.
ReplyDelete