tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588995136414705349.post252699385822596509..comments2024-03-15T08:05:28.706+00:00Comments on The Sleeping Policeman: A Former Police Officer's Blog: HillsboroughLex Ferendahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11111622017331655936noreply@blogger.comBlogger148125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588995136414705349.post-22382587798785991552023-09-04T16:52:55.322+01:002023-09-04T16:52:55.322+01:00fear of god
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Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588995136414705349.post-86748245405204862922019-04-29T23:15:13.979+01:002019-04-29T23:15:13.979+01:00>>5 of the 9 panelists either have direct fa...>>5 of the 9 panelists either have direct family links with Liverpool and/or have a professional history of prosecution or investigating the 'state'. This wasn't even close to a neutral panel.<br />eg. one of the panelists was part of the fiction-fact dramatisation of the event years before. You think thats neutral?<br /> - again your points are utterly compelling, others just bleat and emote in response. 10-0 to you, JessAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588995136414705349.post-24568426591160529122019-04-29T23:13:21.372+01:002019-04-29T23:13:21.372+01:00>>It was hosted in a non neutral location an...>>It was hosted in a non neutral location and led by... the Bishop of Liverpool! How tenable do you think his job would have been if he had concluded the fans were partly to blame? His church would have been vandalised!...at the very least.<br /> - a compelling pointAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588995136414705349.post-71556575915131303172019-04-29T23:12:02.708+01:002019-04-29T23:12:02.708+01:00This is a compelling and extremely well written pi...This is a compelling and extremely well written piece. Some still won't listen though. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588995136414705349.post-5089599291073781412019-04-29T23:02:59.259+01:002019-04-29T23:02:59.259+01:00Football fans have votes and strong emotions, and ...Football fans have votes and strong emotions, and Liverpool has strong emotions, so it is kind of politically incorrect to acknowledge the rather obvious fact that there must have been fans turning up without tickets (admitted in the past) that relied on pushing to barge in. A rough young man who worked for me in the late 1980's did this at Rugby games at Twickenham, and boasted that he was always able to barge his way in. It would not be good to be around such tactics, as such people are very determined. Hence so many crushed. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588995136414705349.post-33200475462373403202019-04-29T22:52:50.199+01:002019-04-29T22:52:50.199+01:00I agree with Jess. It seems daft to obsessively b...I agree with Jess. It seems daft to obsessively blame the police, and not blame the people pushing. I often stand on a 7-deep platform of people waiting for a rush hour tube train. If the dudes at the back pushed, those on front would be pushed off the edge of the platform and die. But that doesn't happen. That's because there's no need to push, and only yobs and idiots would do that. But football's really special so that no fans can ever do any wrong, right ? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588995136414705349.post-83964044853538068882018-05-24T22:21:51.844+01:002018-05-24T22:21:51.844+01:00I barely know where to start with this. I am genui...I barely know where to start with this. I am genuinely stunned and also very, very, angry. You mention 'concerns' a lot. No, sorry, that's the wrong word to use. Try 'proof'. There was outright black and white proof that statements written by officers that criticised the policing of the event on that day were sanitised beyond belief. South Yorkshire police lied by omission. Then there was the total - let me be blunt here, total and utter - failure of crowd control on the part of the police. Yes, the Liverpool fans rushed into the tunnel. Why were they allowed to? Why were the gates to the two central pens, where the deaths occurred, not closed off by the police? Why were the streets leading to Leppings Lane not better policed? Why no pickets to slow the passage of fans? <br />Basic failures on the part of Duckenfield caused that disaster. What then followed was beyond a disgrace - the smearing of the dead in a desperate effort to protect the reputation of the South Yorkshire Police force.<br />You, sir, are a disgrace to police officers everywhere.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588995136414705349.post-53064273302861071232018-03-25T16:23:05.016+01:002018-03-25T16:23:05.016+01:00If someone falls in front of a train because someb...If someone falls in front of a train because somebody further back in the queue pushed forward and created a domino effect, is the person that pushed blameless?Thinktankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00756374737313426689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588995136414705349.post-89359510688930858422017-01-08T00:34:53.588+00:002017-01-08T00:34:53.588+00:00Jess, so the problem is that once there is above a...Jess, so the problem is that once there is above a certain volume of people in a fixed space, with a momentum in a particular direction, then the crowd becomes like a fluid, which no individual member within that crowd can resist. The momentum can be provided by people simply walking briskly in a direction and the space they are walking into being restricted. If you look at the video of the event, there was no pushing or shoving. https://www.wired.com/2015/09/hajj-stampede-fluid-dynamics-problem/moonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13285159695284973925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588995136414705349.post-65194166544217120432016-12-26T03:04:57.922+00:002016-12-26T03:04:57.922+00:00
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Failing after failing followed by hard faced lies.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588995136414705349.post-2021417669320117312016-02-17T19:11:45.917+00:002016-02-17T19:11:45.917+00:00The shame lies with a hand full of so called Liver...The shame lies with a hand full of so called Liverpool fans who in their stupidity could not conduct themselves properly ..people do not crush themselves someone has to start to push and God and they know who they are Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588995136414705349.post-30074925940110243012016-02-17T19:06:46.726+00:002016-02-17T19:06:46.726+00:00Did south Yorkshire police police the Heysel stadi...Did south Yorkshire police police the Heysel stadium. And don't give me that crap about it being unsafe a car is unsafe it you drive like a twat Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588995136414705349.post-44577502590332370472016-02-17T06:46:14.181+00:002016-02-17T06:46:14.181+00:00Really then do tell why 14 Liverpool fans were fou...Really then do tell why 14 Liverpool fans were found guilty of man slaughter a few years earlier and why was English football banned from Europe for 5 years because of the actions of Liverpool fans and tell how Liverpool fans managed to kill 39 fans by crushing them against a wall and then it collapsing at Heysel in 1985. Expect that was the police as well..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588995136414705349.post-87199662337214126182015-03-17T22:41:11.800+00:002015-03-17T22:41:11.800+00:00There are some Liverpool fans who were there on th...There are some Liverpool fans who were there on that sad day with no ticket and had no intention of ever getting one who pushed. It was a known tactic that many of the old firm hooligans used following LFC around Europe and the UK. The findings will show that the police and Thatcher covered this up and the genuine fans there will feel exonerated after being accused of wrong doing. However, there will be an element of the fans who will have to live with the fact that they pushed and kept pushing to get in for nothing. Every time they look in the mirror all they will see is someone with no ticket pushing and stamping to get in for nothing. I wouldn't to live with the fact that deep down, I am just as guilty as the authorities who fucked up on that dreadful day.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588995136414705349.post-80303951180229848862014-05-30T14:48:14.769+01:002014-05-30T14:48:14.769+01:00I have always had the greatest sympathy and respec...I have always had the greatest sympathy and respect for those who died at Hillsborough - they were innocent and blameless and were killed by other people's actions. <br />RIP to the 96.<br />Their bereaved families were treated in the most dreadful way by the authorities in the aftermath of the disaster, but they kept their dignity and courage in tact and have kept looking for answers ever since and good for them. <br />I would have done the same if it was my son or daughter who had died at a football match.<br />But I will now make my point, my long held opinion, that Liverpool fans contributed to the Hillsborough disaster. <br />This is not to denigrate the memory of those who died, it is meant to question the actions of the people outside the stadium who in my opinion were a contributing factor to what happened that day.<br />South Yorkshire Police made so many terrible errors and lost control of the situation as it unfolded. <br />The police failings and subsequent cover-up have now been well documented. <br />But, for the ordinary officers outside the Leppings Lane end of the ground (not those in command) what were they faced with? A potentially fatal crush and mayhem outside a football ground. <br />Outside a football ground!!<br />This has to and can only be caused by people pushing, shoving, and trying to force their way in from the back with absolutely no regard for the safety of other people around them. . <br />Drunken-ness and fans without tickets was a factor, not an 'excessive' factor according to the Taylor Report, but still a factor, a significant factor, none the less. <br />Not in those who died - but in those arriving late and finding themselves at the back, those doing the pushing and shoving to force people dangerously forward, trying to find a way to bunk in and gain entry for free. <br />These people will never own up to this. They can never be counted, interviewed, or be included in any official reports into the disaster. They would never have sent written submissions to the Taylor Enquiry would they? <br />After the match they would have driven or taken the train or coach home, they just disappeared, but I hope that to this day they feel guilt for what they did because without the crushing they caused outside the ground this disaster would never have happened. <br />Before anyone says there was no pushing and shoving or ticketless or drunken fans at Hillsborough - remember this. Liverpool fans prided themselves and took glory in being able to 'bunk in' to big games at home and abroad without tickets all through the 70s and 80s but at Hillsborough they didn't do it did they because they all acted wonderfully well. <br />And when they were pushing, shoving, and trying to force entry and bunk in at Liverpool's last Champions League Final, again, they still can't be questioned or apportioned any blame.<br />The failings of South Yorkshire Police were massive. The need for perimeter fences at football grounds, caused by the widespread football hooliganism of the period, was a factor, as was the need to segregate fans. <br />Liverpool fans had a notorious reputation after Heysel and had caused all English clubs to be banned from Europe when they arrived at Hillsborough.<br />The botched emergency response was a factor, dozens of lives could and should have been saved. <br />But for the Hillsborough Independent Panel (HIP) to absolve Liverpool fans of any blame is laughable, for David Cameron to stand in Parliament and say Liverpool fans 'neither caused nor contributed' to the Hillsborough disaster makes it almost politically incorrect to question the 'official' HIP version of Hillsborough.<br />There needs to be admissions of culpability on all sides for the debate on this to finally end. South Yorkshire Police are now having to do it. Sheffield Wednesday and Sheffield City Council are re: the lack of safety certificate. And so are the FA for selecting Hillsborough for an FA Cup semi final with it's questionable record on safety. <br />Now it's time for Liverpool fans to admit their part in this. I won't hold my breath.<br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588995136414705349.post-71396075686707646052014-04-23T02:05:49.680+01:002014-04-23T02:05:49.680+01:00Well said. I saw the crowd at the back pushing the...Well said. I saw the crowd at the back pushing there way in, thinking it was funny while those at the front were screaming for the surge to stop. They were thinking only of themselves and now they take no responsibility and blame the police. I lost my 18 year old son so know of the pain and only have sympathy for the officers who stood in my kitchen and had to make my wife and I come to terms with there presence.Boardermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17144779513061429281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588995136414705349.post-47265201722558154572014-04-16T10:29:40.812+01:002014-04-16T10:29:40.812+01:00The ignorance of the some of the comments above is...The ignorance of the some of the comments above is truly staggering.<br /><br />The THATCHER GOVERNMENT appointed Lord Chief Justice Taylor to lead the original inquiry in 1989/90.<br /><br />How this comprehensive report, both Interim and Final versions, have been ignored by those here is beyond belief.<br /><br />Did he only do half a job?<br />Was a secret Liverpool fan?<br />Was he born in Liverpool or had family connections to the city?<br />Had he once visited the place?<br />Was LFC his secret 2nd club?<br />Was he anti-Thatcherite?<br />Was he anti-Police?<br /><br />Gosh - I mean, how on earth could he have come to this conclusion?<br /><br />Did he just have a chat with a few of the families? Or maybe he spoke to a few drunken LFC fans and wrote his report around that. <br /><br />Amazing isn't it<br /><br />For your delight, delectation and above all, education, here is the Interim Report:<br /><br />http://www.southyorks.police.uk/sites/default/files/Taylor%20Interim%20Report.pdf <br /><br />From here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7992845.stm <br /><br />"The inquiry into the disaster led by Lord Chief Justice Taylor established that main cause was a failure of police crowd control. "<br /><br />"Some of his strongest words were reserved for the police commander, Chief Superintendent David Duckenfield, for "failing to take effective control", and South Yorkshire police, who attempted to blame supporters for the crush by arriving at the ground "late and drunk". "<br /><br />An inconvenient truth for many here I suspect.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588995136414705349.post-52267719188394128522014-04-15T20:06:21.403+01:002014-04-15T20:06:21.403+01:00Are you a Liverpudnian?
31 per cent of Liverpool...Are you a Liverpudnian? <br />31 per cent of Liverpool’s 160,000 houses are effectively ‘jobless’, Official figure. You're great city has the highest unemployment in the UK. <br />Now ***k off and get a job. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588995136414705349.post-90288991398715089212014-04-15T20:03:44.421+01:002014-04-15T20:03:44.421+01:00You hate the police. All of them? I've been ...You hate the police. All of them? I've been a copper for years and done some great things. Never lied in statements, caught burglars red handed, locked up scores of thieves, taken loads of uninsured cars off the road (each costs you £50 a year!). Someone even tried to kill me with a knife once. The police of the 80's and 90's are a world away from those of today, just as football supporters and ground management is compared to then. The scandals you hear about concerning the police even today are a tiny fraction of the incidents dealt with. <br />If these pleadings are falling on dear ears, you are in a sad position as your attitude will via yourself or others like you meet a police officer, who will in turn hate you back for the undeserved personal bile. And so the cycle goes on. <br />Don't forget the police recruit from society, not another planet. So bent coppers are just bent people that haven't been found out and kicked out yet. I'd waste no time getting rid of a wrong 'un. <br />You'll probably tell me to go fuck myself. No problem. i'm used to it. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588995136414705349.post-85929453360508901762014-04-06T17:54:03.384+01:002014-04-06T17:54:03.384+01:00The same nearly happened in Istanbul when liverpoo...The same nearly happened in Istanbul when liverpool fans who went with no tickets rushed and overwhelmed the stewards.But of course any ensuing disaster wouldn't have been their fault Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com